Union Corners Planning Area Meeting Notes:
28, 2004 Meeting Notes
Union Corners Planning Studio met June 28,2004 to talk
about traffic issues [only].
Thirty people attended - including District 6
Alder Judy Olson, City Planning Director Mark Olinger,
and developer Joe Krupp. Krupp was there to speak in favor of restoring
two-way traffic to Winnebago from the river to First
least a half dozen of the neighbors had not attended a
Studio before. They
were drawn to this meeting by specific traffic issues
- particularly the two-way Winnebago proposal [Buell];
and effects of a proposed Sixth Street-East Washington
Avenue signalized intersection [East Dayton, Seventh
and Mifflin]. Also Ken Genskow, 2138 Winnebago, was there for
discussion of Winnebago Street traffic calming
McCormick, from City Traffic Engineering, &
McGrath consultant John Lichtenheld, from
Schreiber-Anderson, led discussion.
pointed to parts of the big East Washington
reconstruction job - like the First Street-East Washington
Avenue intersection, and the Highway 30-East
Washington Avenue full interchange - and said
they're part of a City policy to keep as much through
traffic as possible on major arteries like East
Washington, Highway 30 and Pennsylvania - and off of
East Neighborhood Association member Beth Cannestra
made a case for considering a roundabout at East
Washington Avenue-North Street-Milwaukee Street,
rather than a conventional signalized intersection.
Neighborhood Association member Will Warlick said he's
concerned Winnebago might become more of a through
route - and funnel increased through traffic onto
Williamson Street - rather than trying to keep as
much through traffic as possible off of East
Johnson-Gorham and Williamson-Winnebago - and funnel
it onto East Washington instead.
Narrow the width of Winnebago, from Union Corners to
Schenk's Corners; 2. Restrict some turn movements
at the proposed Sixth Street-Winnebago intersection;
3. Build an island in the middle of the Fourth
Street-Winnebago intersection; and 4. Change the
traffic signals at Schenk's Corners to increase travel
times on Winnebago and make it less attractive as a
McCormick then described the various traffic calming
actions the City plans to take in and around the
Emerson East neighborhood: Sixth Street, East Johnson
Street, Third Street.
He described the process the City typically
goes through to get neighborhood consent to go ahead
with traffic calming, like building islands or speed
Winnebago McCormick said, "We would like to
narrow the street, as well."
Also, he said, the City would like to build
islands in the middle of Winnebago like on Baldwin
between East Washington and East Johnson.
The islands cost $2000-$5000 apiece, he said. McCormick
said the City is concerned it might not get a big
enough percent response from Winnebago property owners
to give work the okay. Narrowing the width of the street could be fairly expensive
for the property owners along Winnebago, he said,
because reconstruction would be assessed by frontage
foot of your lot.
explained there's a difference between traffic calming
on a local street like Waubesa vs. traffic calming,
like pedestrian refuge islands, built as part of the
arterial enhancement program, as on Milwaukee Street.
proposed 'straightening' of the LaFollette
Avenue-Winnebago intersection was discussed.
It was agreed McGrath could propose the
elimination of Division Street, from LaFollette to
Winnebago, to increase the amount of green space in
front of the French Battery Building without
necessarily 'straightening' the LaFollette-Winnebago
intersection; the two do not necessarily need to be
noted the proposed pedestrian-bike crossing off the RR
tracks at Jackson is tied to the proposed vacating of
Division Street because McGrath will likely argue the
two are a 'package'.
You are eliminating one grade crossing
[Division] and adding a new one [Jackson]; so, taken
together, the two would be a wash.
argued strongly against designing the proposed Sixth
Street-East Washington Avenue intersection to prevent
certain turning movements.
the end of the meeting Alder Judy Olson said she came
to the meeting expecting one of the issues the Studio
would discuss this night would be restoring two-way
traffic on Winnebago from the river to First.
Corners business owners - and particularly, now, Joe
Krupp who is trying to interest store owners to locate
in his new mixed-use Kennedy Place development along
Atwood Avenue - feel very strongly that two-way
traffic needs to be restored - to help create a PM
drive time flow of traffic past their businesses -
so the PM traffic does not just keep going on Eastwood
Drive and bypass Schenk's Corners businesses.
money in the budget, Olson said, to do a
"trial" of the two-way idea but neighbors
who live on Merry and Buell fear two-way traffic on
their portion of Winnebago would make it difficult to
'get out' onto Winnebago and might create an
intimidating situation. "It's clear to me,"
Olson said, "this is part of a larger discussion
involving Union Corners, and the future of Winnebago,
but it actually predates Union Corners."
McCormick said he agreed, that neighbors on Merry and
Buell are "concerned about what's happening up
here, at Union Corners," because it might make
the situation they fear even worse - that Union
Corners might be "shooting a lot more traffic,
along Winnebago, right in front of where they
McGrath reported he and his team have had some initial
meetings with City staff about submitting his GDP
[General Development Plan]. The GDP, he said, will be "very conceptual."
McGrath said the GDP would include the vacating
[elimination] of the Winnebago Street moving merge
into East Washington, and the vacating of
Division Street from LaFollette to Winnebago.
Corners Studio Meeting
June 2, 2004
agenda for this wrap-up studio meeting included a
review of the large public meeting of May 26 and a
look at next steps. Rebecca Krantz (RK) asked
for general impressions. Todd McGrath said he
felt the meeting was positive. Glad to see other
stakeholders whom he hadn't seen before show up.
RK said maybe 200 people attended the meeting, up to
160 at any one time in the room. Lance McGrath
(LM) thought the format was great. Mark Olinger
(MO) was pleased with the turnout, thought more AV
work would have been an improvement. Lack of a
sound system was a problem. Larry thought the
meeting worked well. Perspective views of
project were helpful. RK would have liked more
time. Most important thing, from her
perspective, RK said, was help and a committed group.
asked for feedback on responses from the meeting,
including surprises. Questions on the following
topics were discussed:
and density: Some noticed a concern
over height and density, while others thought there
was less concern about this than expected. A
comment coming from the large public meeting was that
the buildings in this development should not exceed
the height of East High School. That would limit
the buildings to six stories or less. Todd
seemed to think that was a reasonable limit.
Doug noted that land across the railroad tracks is
higher, so somewhat taller buildings on the
development site would have little impact. MO
thought access to light by most adjoining
neighborhoods would not be an issue. Trudy
pointed out that getting affordable units might
require compromise on points like height and density.
Greater density spreads the cost of land among more
units, bringing down the development cost per unit.
Several people noted that the buildings pictured in
the birds eye perspectives of the project made it look
like an office park. Todd pointed out that these
perspectives were massing studies. They are
preliminary drawings to show the overall sizes of the
buildings in relation to the neighborhood. Todd
also pointed out that four or five architects would be
chosen to design different buildings in the
development in order to provide some architectural
diversity. Todd asked if others thought some of
the new buildings should reflect the style of the
French Battery Building (brick exterior, industrial
look). Several studio members agreed that one or
two of the new buildings should be in this style.
Barb Irvin suggested that the buildings in this style
face East Washington Avenue.
Doug wished that the designs of buildings
evoked the neighborhood.
Several people noted comments about potential noise
problems, including noise from the railroad, traffic
on East Washington Avenue, and airplanes. Todd
responded that a lot could be done in the construction
details to shield interiors from outside noise.
He has experience with this in a Basset Street
development. There was a discussion on the
possible end to the railroad crossing whistle ban.
According to MO, new rules from the Federal Railroad
Administration will probably require the whistles to
be reinstated. A studio member pointed out that
people have lived with the whistles a long time; the
problem is that the railroad has made them louder now.
mix: Two people commented that the
project does not seem to appeal to families because of
the lack of open space and elevator style living.
Todd pointed out that elevator buildings are
intergenerational and do not preclude family living.
MO pointed out that there are schools in the
neighborhood and that serving the family market seems
logical. Not only are adequately sized units and
yards important to families, but also layout of rooms
is important. RK noted anecdotal evidence of a
shortage of large, affordable housing units (i.e.,
four to six bedrooms). Todd said he might
undertake a market study to look at this.
Street: Was there a "Main
Street" (shopping street) in the development?
Todd said that "Main Street" in the plans
(an extension of Winnebago) would have ground floor
retail on both sides as well as diagonal parking.
Todd pointed out that a lot of people looking at the
plans and perspectives would not know that parking
would be provided underground for many of the
buildings. There would be adequate parking,
though parking ratios would be slightly less than in
Streets:" There was some confusion about this. Todd
pointed out that it was not the intention to create a
gated community or to limit public access to the
streets in the development. He would propose
public ownership of the streets if possible. MO
pointed out that private ownership was proposed as a
possible way to get around State DOT street design
standards that would probably not allow a street as
narrow as the lane proposed along the south edge of
the site. There are examples of other
developments around the country, which include private
streets so that they can be built according to the
more pedestrian-friendly standards of
"traditional neighborhood design." MO
also pointed out that privately-owned streets would
not necessarily preclude public access, and he cited
an example of a development on the west side of
Madison whose privately owned street (Craig Avenue)
looks and functions like a public street.
"Private streets," as described in this
development, does not mean gated community.
space and residential streetscape: Doug
didn't see porches or balconies in the drawings,
which provide ways for people inside buildings to
interact with the street. Todd pointed out that
the drawings served more as massing models (so porches
and balconies were not shown). The buildings
could have some element of separate entries, even
though they are multi-story. MO talked about the
need for public spaces. Though common elements
within buildings (or the courtyard between Buildings D
and E) would be useful, common space for the community
is essential. Not providing such a space is the worst
mistake of urban planning. Well-designed,
residential streetscapes can serve this role. MO
mentioned the Bedford Court development (500 block of
West Main Street) as a good example of a building,
which adds to the streetscape. The development
is not just a block of apartments; it creates private
places at street level that encourage interaction with
the public street.
elements" as public spaces: Todd described
unconventional "common elements" (public or
shared spaces) that could allow some buildings to work
as neighborhoods. Examples included a rooftop
garden and an enclosed space on a rooftop with views
of the Capitol. Todd was also considering a
community center in Building G (southeast corner of
the site) with housing above. Could this serve
as public space? MO thought its role was
different: It would be a busy place and generate
traffic from outside the neighborhood. It is not
the same public space as a good streetscape.
What he is looking for are spaces that encourage
interaction of neighbors - i.e. from front yards or
public spaces: Todd mentioned
dog-walking grounds as great places of neighbor
interaction. Others mentioned possible public
spaces: A pocket park like Elmside Park in the
Atwood Neighborhood; a town square; a linear park or
walkway such as along some bike paths. Todd was
considering a pedestrian mall-like street on Florence
but was worried about impact on circulation.
Maybe Sullivan would do better for that. He was
also considering wider terraces and limited access on
store: On the timing of the
grocery store construction, it was pointed out by Todd
and Doug that this is linked to the East Washington
Avenue reconstruction project schedule. The
segment at Milwaukee Street will be rebuilt in 2007,
so a grocery store being built on the site before then
reminded everyone of the upcoming traffic meeting on
June 28 at 6:00pm at Holy Cross Lutheran Church on
Milwaukee Street. She is working with Judy Olson
on this. Todd said he wanted to invite John
Lichtenheld, who would have some new traffic counts.
reviewed the next steps. Todd will meet with the
City regarding the General Development Plan. MO: Once
this is submitted, the project goes on autopilot (bad
time to change the design). Maybe the studio
should meet again just prior to submission. Barb
Irvin suggested that the studio meet just prior to the
project being taken to the neighborhood associations
for their review.
asked about possible site tours. Todd thought it
would be better to wait until more people were
interested before scheduling a new site tour.
thought the studio process had a good result.
Thanks all around.
Back to Top
26, 2004 Union Corners Public Meeting Comments and
number in the first column denotes the card number for administrative purposes
process is excellent - a model.
the plan looks much more spiffy than I had anticipated.
hope the retail/small business spaces will not stay
vacant for long - the remodeled East Madison Shopping
Center on East Washington Avenue had several retail
spaces that finally just now filled up.
many contentious points were presented as "set in
Density and Height
seem a little tall.?
nothing exceeding four stories!
"towers"! We are losing sunlight, air, and sky.
(undecipherable word) urban Dwellers moved to Madison
for its "Big Small Town" character.
We do not want to lose sky, sunlight and air
circulation to high buildings! (Which eventually create
height conscious about buildings.
Like the variety.
hope to see mix of commercial and residential
like the density mix.
The width of East Washington Avenue supports
and heights of buildings seem OK to me - sounds like
it'll be real "town center" for surrounding
People spoke against five-story tall buildings
but I think that can be done without the massiveness of
the United Way building that is out of scale with
Atwood Avenue not because of its height but because of
its massiveness and humongous parking lot.
Be sensitive to good design principles (scale and mass
etc.) sounds like you are..
the large public meeting was that buildings in this
development should not exceed the height of East High
community member noted that ground level across the
railroad tracks is naturally higher, so somewhat taller
buildings on the development site would have little
placement of the buildings and the path of the sun
should make access to light by most adjoining
neighborhoods not an issue. Another community member pointed out that getting
affordable units may require compromise on points like
height and density as greater density spreads the cost
of land among more units, bringing down the development
cost per unit thus making for more affordable housing.
really like the idea of using several different
architects for the buildings so we don't end up with
some homogenous looking block.
architects should design buildings.
This will guarantee architectural variety.
many architect firms are working on this project?
I'm doubtful you will see significant diversity
of buildings unless there are multiple firms involved.
The developer agrees that multiple architects
will be chosen to design different buildings in order to
Point taken that these architects should
represent different architectural firms.
- Appearance of Buildings
think that many people at the meeting had the initial
impression that the development would contain
significant office space, because many of the building
renderings presented appear like transplants from
suburban office parks.
Particularly troubling is the thrice-repeated
This project is going to be ultimately judged by
its look as well as feel.
This is an opportunity for some great displays of
I'd hate to see research park copied and pasted
to this corner. And
does the irony escape everyone, putting all the rotundas
on union "corners".
Respect the landscape.
drawings show the apartments and condominium building as
Would really like to see both owner and rental in
each residential building - integrated.
sketch by the architect titled "Florence Street"
depicts exactly what I hope the buildings don't look
like - it looks like all that stuff out in Middleton
west of the Beltline - too much metal, glass, stucco,
pointy things sticking out.
Please scrap and start over.
That doesn't look like anything in our
looks like the Jetsons crossed with Greenway Cross.
(Draws mad face)
futuristic - Jetsons looking
The drawings you saw were only preliminary
massing studies to show overall general sizes of the
buildings in relationship to the neighborhood and each
other. Exterior façade should be ignored at this point.
SKIMP ON ARCHITECTURE!!!!
I would prefer to see building similar to those
on/along major corridors on the North Side of Chicago
(Clark, Lincoln, Belmont, etc.) - mostly deriving
designs from early 20th century commercial
(matches neighborhood context); have some new, European
inspired designs. Avoid
similar designs to West Washington Avenue condominiums.
it is possible to make sidewalks too wide.
Look at State Street width.
These look too wide.
State Street is narrow yet it accommodates
like to see the entire French Battery building
preserved, not just the three-story portion.
The overall architectural theme of the project
has not been determined.
The goal is to use multiple architects - who
are talented designers - to design buildings that
compliment each other and the surrounding neighborhood.
The two-story section of the French Battery
building needs to come down to provide site access and
improve surface water drainage.
Input into Design
incorporate local artists in (maybe a juried process) to
design certain community amenities like benches, light
fixtures, special windows, entryways, and courtyard
elements to help give it a sense of place.
an element of community design to be done by the
residents who eventually take up the space so they can
make some of the shared public space their own.
The developer has been open to community input
though out the neighborhood planning process and
comprehensive streetscape improvements will be part of
the overall plan.
from Sixth eastward should be bounded - on both
sides by dense commercial uses of varying sizes.
That means continuous, not chopped up as
hope to see better, safer traffic patterns.
Winnebago to slow traffic, prevent cut-through, keep
favor of closing Division at Lafollette.
over traffic cutting through down Division Street to
Park . high traffic for children.
drive-through between building H & F
four lanes off Milwaukee onto East Washington Avenue
am also worried about the traffic congestion associated
with the project in general and being able to turn onto
Milwaukee Street from my home on Corry Street.
A cleaner intersection at LaFollette and
Winnebago would also improve this situation.
streets should have very tight turning radii
massive Milwaukee Street expansion will be hugely
detrimental to the "street life" of this project. It will wall off the project from across Milwaukee Street
and East Washington Avenue.
through traffic on Sixth Street.
(Like the idea of traffic diverters at East
Sixth Street must not allow through traffic.
This can be done while providing access to the
(Draws diagram on the card.)
Division Street across RR and adjust the angle of
Winnebago at RR at least to make it bike safe.
bike access from LaFollette
"Main Street" within development.
Site access is very important to the long-term
success of this project.
The existing difficult access is one of the main
reasons why the former Kohl's store did not thrive at
this location. The
developer will continue to work with the surrounding
neighborhoods and City staff with regards to traffic
access and street design.
and Green Space
appreciated the scope of storm water ideas intended to
slow flow off the site.
like to see cistern style or rain barrels added to the
little green space for all those people.
Use roofs to fulfill green space for building
little green space for so many residents.
Especially if Atwood community Center is located
green space - less pavement.
of green space in front of French Battery must be saved.
The "lane" chops it up, making it useless.
appreciate green space on streets of development, much
underground parking, and centrally located surface
The Developer is planning many environmentally
friendly features - including the possibility of green
roofs, rain gardens, and other Green Building
am concerned that the high density of dwellings will not
have adequate parking, so cars will spill over into the
neighborhood and/or there will not be accessible parking
for public areas.
mandatory parking for property buyers.
surface parking in the business district should be
residential it should be parallel only
- no head in parking (too suburban!)
there may not be enough parking proposed for shops.
is planning for enclosed underground parking for most
buildings. There will be adequate parking, though based on previous
experience with similar projects, parking ratios will
probably be slightly less than in conventional
play space should be coupled with traffic calming and
street paint to foster street hockey, kickball, frisbee,
etc. to further reinforce the street as community space.
parallel to the rail tracks should be "kid friendly"
like a quiet neighborhood street where kids play ball.
the use of public space - very usable.
is the informal play space?
It should be coupled with traffic calming and
street paint to foster street hockey, kickball, frisbee,
etc. to further reinforce the street as community space.
would love to see the community center there!
Please help make that happen.
The Developer is planning for playground space
within the project but has not determined specific
the Atwood Community Center were to locate within the
project they would include playground space as part of
PRIVATELY MANAGED ROADS!!
Full access including the "feeling" that
carriage lane is public is essential for full
integration of this development into the community.
streets should be private.
private streets in the development.
Maintained municipal property is owned by the
City and the City is responsible to keep it plowed and
fill the potholes and so on.
Privately owned property would be owned by the
developer and the developer would be responsible to
maintain the surface whether it is a street or a parking
that is privately owned will still be fully accessible
to the public and in fact ownership will appear seamless
to the community. There
are other places in the city where this is the case. In some places at this site the developer was interested in
special paving materials to assist in storm water runoff
management. It may be in the best interest of the
community to have these areas maintained privately by
persons skilled in the required maintenance.
ownership is also a way to get around State DOT street
design standards to create streets built according to
the more pedestrian-friendly standards of
"traditional neighborhood design."
lofts are a great idea - something Madison
studios require north light, not south.
Perhaps you should ask area artists for their
input regarding studio needs.
The Developer agrees that artists' lofts are a
great idea and welcomes input on their design.
need the grocery store FIRST
before anything else!
LOVE the two-story grocery store with cart
need a real grocery store!
- we need a grocery store!!! Willy Street Coop is great but kind of expensive -
we need regular cheap food and products too.
Store Built First!!
expect a development with services for the immediate
neighbors, like groceries, hardware, restaurants, house
wares, garden, and professional offices.
Timing of the
grocery store construction is linked to the East
Washington Avenue reconstruction project schedule.
The segment at Milwaukee Street will be rebuilt
in 2007, so unfortunately a grocery store being built on
the site before then is unlikely.
good insulation in the apartments.
Sirens during the night are a problem.
We live two blocks off East Washington
Avenue and we can hear them. Convince me to live in one of the apartments - noise
house condominiums are an obscure architectural buffer
from stark contrast with neighborhood.
The carriage-house condominiums are going to be adjacent
to the railroad tracks - who'd want to buy one of
not swap this row of condominiums with the
(Use the lane as a noise buffer between the
condos and the RR.)
- sure are a lot of condominiums - would really like
to see some true affordability - range of
incomes - no "luxury" units.
A lot can be
done in the construction details to shield interiors
from outside noise, including noise from the railroad,
traffic on East Washington Avenue, and airplanes. The developer has experience with this in previous
rules from the Federal Railroad Administration will
probably require train whistles to be reinstated but
area residents point out that people have lived with the
whistles a long time.
the design team talked to or had any feedback from the
railroad or rail commissioner?
Yes, and will continue to do so.
there is a fence that runs along the southern boundary
(rail corridor) the length of the area. Will there be any type of fence/barrier in the new
Yes, there will likely be some fencing or
landscape buffers along the railroad corridor.
the cost of site remediation included in the cost of
No, the cost quoted at the meeting does not
include site remediation.
Remediation costs are the exclusive
responsibility of Rayovac.
is Rayovac's responsibility to the City/project?
Is there a time line?
Rayovac had the vision to solicit
redevelopment bids for their site as opposed to
mothballing the site or selling to another industrial
responsibilities are to remediate the site and to obtain
a VPLE (Voluntary Party Liability Exemption) completion
certificate from the WDNR for the property.
They are working closely with their local
consultants to complete this work within the
Demolition and subsequent remediation should
begin during the Fall of 2004.
exactly is maintained municipal property and what is
Maintained municipal property is owned by the
City and the City is responsible to keep it plowed and
fill the potholes and so on.
Privately owned property would be owned by the
developer and the developer would be responsible to have
it plowed and to maintain the surface.
If any property is privately owned it will still
be fully accessible by and in fact ownership will appear
seamless to the community.
There are other places in the city where this is
the case. In
some places at this site the developer was interested in
special paving materials.
It may be in the best interest of the community
to have these areas maintained privately by persons
skilled in the required maintenance.
the retail business community approached this
is, is there any interest, any excitement by
retail to locate here?
Yes, there is substantial interest and
excitement - many local businesses have approached the
buses and snowplows will have a difficult time
maneuvering through the complex, how will delivery
truck, fire trucks, ambulances, or police vehicles
affect the traffic flow?
Will streets be blocked for long periods of time?
What about people trying to get out of the
complex in their cars for their jobs?
Narrow streets are not a good idea!!
Not all streets in the project are considered
street designs will be adequate for fire and emergency
Narrow streets provide for a more residential
feel and also act as a traffic-calming device.
a conceptual plan been formulated for how to
logistically proceed with building after demolition?
Yes, the project will be "built-out" in
phases over a four-six year period.
many residents (range)?
400-500 new residents.
about Red Letter News?
Red Letter News is outside the scope of this
ratio (in square feet) are the ranges for commercial vs.
Anticipate approximately 100,000 square feet
of commercial space and 400,000-500,000 square feet of
need for skywalks between buildings? Any desire for them?
you considered an in-vessel composting system (such as
an Earth tub) to manage food waste at this site?
you brought in a nonprofit that works with poverty
issues to look at how the development will meet the
needs of people in poverty?
Examples: Case management in rent units and/or
non profits who hold leases of rental units and sublet
them as subsidized transitional housing units [in
addition to the IZ(?)]
The Developer is considering partnering with
non-profits to create more affordable housing units.
If the Atwood Community Center were to relocate
to this site they would offer many of these services.
to include a community garden?
A community garden (i.e., similar to Blair Street
Gardens) has been discussed several times, and the
developer will be including space for them in the site
public-private connectors (Porches, stoops, pergolas,
etc.) are being incorporated to liven street
Encouraging street life and neighborhood
interaction was a goal throughout this process for both
the studio and the developer.
Buildings are placed with a face to the street
and connectors will be incorporated into the plans as
they become more specific.
so many parallel streets? Five streets to the same place? Start with losing the "lane across the beautiful French
Battery green space.
The Design Studio and the developer discussed the
street pattern in length and it was mutually agreed that
the grid approach was necessary to create an organizing
element and an "urban" feel.
Store - What's an "urban grocery"?
Hope it doesn't mean high cost limited
selection "yuppie" or junk food "convenience"
something with a full range of products affordable
unlike Willy Street Coop.
An "Urban Grocery Store" is not your
typical big box grocer.
It has smaller space and parking requirements
while still offering a full-range of products.
This type of store is also more likely to have
alternative designs - such as a two-levels of
shopping, underground parking, etc.
anyone approached this project with any firm
interest in the retail spaces?
And I am thinking of the hardware store
specifically. Has Dorn True Value or Ace Hardware expressed any interest
in this? I
wouldn't mind seeing the retail spaces be all
food related, i.e. an international "food-court" -
no big chains.
There has been a lot of interest - both
retail and restaurant in this project.
The developer would like to see
"Neighborhood" uses - grocer, hardware, small
restaurants, specialty retail, etc.
you consider a market type format instead of a
traditional grocery store?
A market could include stalls/small stores for a
variety of food vendors giving full options for grocery
needs, but also creating a niche market for
specialized/local year round food options plus
attractions for people outside neighborhood and even
tourists, bringing $ into neighborhood's local hands.
Options would feel akin to Jenifer Street Market,
but would provide opportunities for more local
businesses (year round farmers market feel).
Existing examples can be found in Montreal
(Atwater Market), Philadelphia, Seattle and others.
all are very successful and always crowded (draws smiley
The developer is open to suggestions from all
marketability is a key factor to be considered. Contact Todd McGrath at McGrath Associates and work out the
details with him.
happening with the huge electrical/telephone poles and
wires on Winnebago?
Will the lines be buried or be an eyesore on the
face of the development?
This is beyond the scope of the project,
however it is our understanding that the City is
considering improvements to Winnebago St. which could
include traffic calming, streetscape improvements and
could also include under-grounding of utilities.
Meeting Evaluation Comments
presenters versus one whole time speaker.
on development plans.
You folks did a great job of explaining.
chance for public input.
to help visualize project.
and general description of progress on the project.
to the agenda.
displays and broad comments
about what happened.
see what was happening.
the different question and answers.
well organized meeting with lots of info
well organized meeting with lots of info
- No expectations.
level of interest and detailed plans.
really impressed with how local citizens and studio
members stepped up to the plate on this difficult
willingness to attempt the studio process giving local
residents with a wide range of experience the chance to
contribute a voice at the table.
A big thank you to all studio members, Rebecca
Krantz, Mark Olinger, Todd and Lance McGrath and
team and all who contributed.
great proposal. A
time and efforts of the McGrath Team and the Studio
of plans. Presentation
by speakers to give detail and answer questions.
Come away with an idea of what has been planned
and discussed so far.
variety and depth of the displays.
The turnout; good numbers, good variety.
hope in the future:
meetings like this.
like an exciting development for our neighborhood.
updates on next meetings.
like to participate in small group meetings.
(But does not provide information on how to
will plan on attending future scheduled meetings.
more specifics about transportation, housing, design,
time for questions and comments.
handout of project; a take home diagram.
are doing a great job - Keep up the terrific work.
well organized. Look
forward to seeing more!
of the same happens.
big turnouts to make this work.
forward to seeing this project get done.
is really good the hood and the developer have worked
together so cheerfully - unlike MNA.
to see so many turn out.
glossary of terms.
For example new market tax credits.
job by the moderator. Repeated questions in a clear strong voice.
hope this project can become the model for infill
projects in Madison as a renewal of traditional
job! (Draws smiley face)
the economy picks up soon enough and is sustained enough
to see this project through.
details on parking and storm water management.
job putting on presentation.
Melton's humor! The
agenda/summary handout needs a map/graphic of some sort.
Need a microphone and small amplifier for the
speakers next time.
Union Corners Studio
May 12, 2004
- Agenda: Review the criteria and factors for
evaluating the design, and plan the public meeting.
The meeting will be on May 26 in the same space
the studio has been meeting recently (Holy Cross
Lutheran Church on Milwaukee St.)
A 3000-piece mailing is going out.
The meeting will begin with an open house from
7:00-7:30 p.m. during which attendees can view
stations around the room, each describing an aspect of
the project. Studio
members will stand near the stations and answer
the open house period, there will be a presentation
and a Q&A period.
Bremer - Will there be another opportunity to get
information on the project?
Rebecca -Yes. See the website or get materials kept in the library
There will also be additional public hearings.
Todd - The City review process and
development process will take about one year, so there
is more opportunity for input.
Rebecca - Emphasized that this is a work in
- We are planning on taking aerial photos, which
could serve as a base for 3D modeling and perspectives
of the entire site.
of summaries of factors/criteria for evaluating and
presenting the proposed design: (Draft texts
prepared on these topics by studio members were handed
out. Studio provided suggestions for editing each.)
Todd wanted to add that he is relying on the
improvements to the Milwaukee Street/East Washington
Avenue intersection currently planned as part of the
East Washington Avenue reconstruction project.
Suggestion that a topic on parking be added.
Todd will provide guidelines.
Should mention need for pedestrian safety
improvements on Milwaukee Street.
Todd wanted to mention that development is
trying to accommodate Metro.
Todd is also exploring re-aligning the Division
Street/LaFollette/Winnebago intersection to make a
single crossing of the RR tracks.
This would take out the radiator shop.
Other edits - mention new signal on East
Washington Avenue and changing Winnebago 'on-ramp'.
Todd - "compatible" may be too soft; the
buildings are not really like others in the
Todd - Note that he is supporting diversity
in design. Several
designers will be involved.
Development. Mark Olinger
- Should mention positive impact of jobs in the
development's commercial space.
Todd - Agreed with summary that development
would have spin offs for Schenk's Corners.
Jen - What will happen to Ford's Gym and H+R
- My summary addresses this.
Todd - We are in discussions with Ford's.
Suggestion that Todd mention he will be
marketing to a range of demographics segments.
Todd - Affordability and accessibility are
key and already mentioned.
Vision for this development is urban living
like some people enjoy near the Square, but
- The text suggests you are offering smaller units,
sweat equity credits, etc.
Is this true?
Todd - These may be offered, not definite.
Will the project have a secure garage?
and Diversity of Housing. (Outline
of summary by Trudy) Housing will be at different
levels of amenity and affordability.
Some units will not have elevators or covered
parking, for example.
and Desired Uses.
(Outline by Trudy)
The development will include a local grocery
store and a variety of retail/commercial spaces -
various sizes, and including artists' lofts.
spaces. Todd added that
one of the goals is to make streetscapes
pedestrian-friendly, i.e. the lane along the RR line.
This concept fits with 'ownership of the
streetscape', which Mark Olinger will
about other amenities that people have mentioned in
the past, like a swimming pool and skate park?
Todd - Swimming pool is an intense use that
would require a lot of parking.
Judy Olson - A skate park is envisioned for
East Rail Corridor's Central Park.
Todd - Wanted to talk about art.
Thinking of a sculpture garden maybe near
French Battery Building.
- Advisory Committee is leaning toward asking Mayor
back for more of his ideas on vision for city.
He could add summaries on density, urban form,
and infill. Would
like to get a history of the area. Todd - Rayovac left historic photos.
Todd described DNR compliance process for the
Wrap this into Judy's summary of Traffic.
Focus of preserving buildings will be on French
Original section of building will be kept.
A later, two-story wing will be removed (to
allow lane along RR line, and better storm water
want to commit to keeping the 1966 Kohl's supermarket
factory sheds behind the French Battery Building will
not be saved either (most of remaining soil cleanup
will be below these, and their floors are at existing
grade which gets flooded.)
Recycling much of the building materials.
Saving large trees in front of French Battery
- Looking for volunteers to help with wheelchair
and Mary volunteered.
Need a third. Also looking for someone to lend a cell phone, which gets
reception in this basement.
The number will be posted on the doors so
anyone coming late and finding the doors locked can
Corners Planning Studio Meeting Notes
Army Community Center
March 10, 2004
(11 Studio members + 13 other neighbors not officially designated Studio
members), 2 members of the McGrath team
facilitator Rebecca Krantz said the Studio, at this
point, is "two-thirds to three-fourths of the way through,
maybe" completing its job of offering neighbors'
input to the McGrath team.
McGrath said at the next Studio meeting March 24 his
team would present two options - two different
visions, or directions, for the site - to get Studio
members' reactions which of the two they might prefer.
a tension here.
There are some competing interests,"
McGrath said. "We have the issue of how much
density is necessary to make the project work
financially. There's the street grid.
There's the issue of open space: More open
space vs. less.
Do we build up, to get the same density on a
smaller footprint, creating more open space? Or do we
build out, with lower buildings, covering a greater
percentage of the site, creating less open space?"
like the idea of a Main Street, with angle
parking," he said.
[Note: At the February 25 Studio meeting the McGrath
team presented the idea of extending Winnebago Street
up into the development, to the Kohl's end of the
site, running exactly parallel to East Washington all
the way up to the corner, with stores between East
Washington and Winnebago.
This idea is part of Drawing "C" in
the February 25 McGrath documents. This 'New Winnebago', he
said, might act as a "Main Street," as an
intermediary access road.]
are some issues we're dealing with right now,"
McGrath said, "having to do with the French
Battery building and storm water drainage."
"We're considering the possibility of NOT
having a motor vehicle entrance off the end of
Farwell," he said, "and, instead, making
that just a pedestrian-bicycle connection."
said he continues to talk with grocers about possibly
locating in the development. One possibility, he said,
is a small(er) grocer locating right at the corner of
East Washington and Milwaukee Street.
He has talked with Brennan's.
He has talked with the owners of Jenifer Street
Market about a possible second location.
"We've also been approached by some larger
mainstream stores," he said. "The question
is, how flexible would they be in working with us?
For example, on things like residential above
said "we had a meeting with Trudy today" -
Trudy Younger, owner of Trudy's, across the street
from Rayovac - and discussed possible locations -
including the possibility of a location with frontage
on both East Washington and the proposed 'new
was asked if the draft site plans he's prepared so far
assume, roughly, four-story buildings.
Well, yes, he said, in that range, on average,
"but you can talk about different ways to
distribute that height: for example, from two-stories
to six-stories," rather than having most of the
buildings be a uniform height.
McGrath reported that Schreiber-Anderson consultant
John Lichtenheld is "pretty close to wrapping
up" a preliminary traffic signal analysis that
looks at whether another set of traffic lights along
East Washington - at either Sullivan or Sixth -
would work - or whether they would be too close to
existing lights at Milwaukee and at Fourth - and,
so, might cause traffic flow - back-up (queuing) -
Lichtenheld has been using Sim Traffic to
project what traffic flows might look like.
It's a valuable tool, Lance said; Lichtenheld
may bring it to the next Studio meeting.
Monday March 15 Lichtenheld meets with city traffic
staff - Dan McCormick, Dave Dettmann - to go over,
again, what degree of info they need from him to be
'on the same page' and be satisfied the analysis he is
doing is, in fact, answering the questions they may
on Monday March 22 the McGrath team has another city
"team" meeting - with representatives from
all the various city departments, to go over where
So that by the time of the next Studio meeting
March 24, the McGrath team should be able to tell the
Studio where things stand - particularly with
Sullivan v. Sixth.
Planning Director Mark Olinger - who has been
attending Studio meetings and is the lead city staff
person on Union Corners - then gave Studio members a
short course on Tax Incremental Financing (TIF).
TIF is a financing tool, Olinger said. It's
meant to help make things happen that, perhaps, would
not otherwise happen.
For TIF to be used, Olinger said, a project has
to pass the "But For" test: 'But for TIF, it
He described a new state law that changes some
TIF rules. He also pointed out the difference between
a 'TIF District' and a 'Redevelopment District' -
two different things. Before you can establish a TIF
district, he said you need to have a "blight
study." In the case of Union Corners, Olinger
said, "we don't have a blight study, and we don't
(yet) have a TIF district."
There will be a meeting on Monday March 15, he
said, with Alders Olson, Benford and Markle to
talk about using TIF at Union Corners.
One of the questions is if a TIF district is
established, could the boundaries of the district be
drawn to include a larger area beyond just the
boundaries of the McGrath development, to try to
accomplish some other goals in the surrounding area
- for example, improvements to Winnebago, further
down towards Fourth Street?
to establish a redevelopment district at Union Corners
is a completely different question - separate from
the issue of TIF.
"We don't know if there's going to be a
redevelopment district established," Olinger
said. A redevelopment district allows us to do two
things, he said: One, It allows the city to buy things
- For example, we may need to buy property for an
extension of Sixth Street; and Two, It allows us to
acquire property through eminent domain, as a last
resort, if negotiations with a property owner have
broken down, if a property owner is holding up a
development by insisting on a wildly high amount of
money for their property.
would probably be Fall 2005, Olinger said, before
either a TIF district or a redevelopment district -
or both - would be established.
Judy Olson told Olinger, "it would be useful to
me to know, if 50% of a TIF district has to be
considered 'blight', and then - in drawing the
boundaries of the TIF district - can you just draw a
big circle twice as big as the blight area?
Does there have to be continuity of the blight
areas?" Olinger said, "I don't know.
"We try not to draw areas too large. I
will try to have an answer to that by the 15th.
You can make TIF $$ expenditures only within a
TIF district. But it's an interesting question, what
could we capture?"
Urban Design Commission member and Schenk-Atwood
neighbor Mike Barrett then gave a presentation on
Parking Cash Out (PCO) and encouraged McGrath to make
full use of it at Union Corners, as a strategy to help
reduce parking demand - and reduce the amount of
land at Union Corners devoted to parking. Under PCO,
an employer or landowner computes the cash value of a
parking space, then offers employees or residents the
choice: Do you want a parking spot? Or do you want the
Barrett said he knows of one case locally -
Physicians Plus on Regent Street - where 20% of the
employees took the cash - thereby reducing demand
for employee parking spots.
PCO helps maximize land value, Barrett said, by
reducing the % of land a developer must devote to
He urged McGrath to separate the parking space
lease from the condo or apartment lease - make them
two separate transactions - and not, in effect,
"force" residents to pay for a parking space
by making it part of the lease.
McGrath said he's seen, in some of his other
developments, households moving in closer to the
center of the city, from a home further out, going
from "2 cars to 1, or 1 car to zero" - and
he's looking for the same thing to happen at Union
Studio member Doug Johnson told McGrath having
a PCO policy in place might help him get city approval
to provide less than 1-to-1 parking.
McGrath then described the kind of housing he intends
to build at Union Corners.
"We're trying to develop a product that
serves this immediate area," McGrath said.
"Draw a one-mile radius circle, look at
what kinds of people, what kinds of housing choices
are here now.
We're looking to offer choices that don't exist
in the market now.
Different sizes and shapes.
Ideas that aren't being addressed.
want to create a new urban environment here, an urban
village, if you will.
Strategically located. We think we can offer a
really great urban experience at less cost than right
downtown because the cost of land is so much greater
there. We think we'll be able to do things that are
almost impossible in a downtown neighborhood."
mentioned some of the financing tools he is
considering. He is not sure yet if the site will
qualify for Brownfield cleanup financial assistance.
Though there is battery waste on the site, the
property may not be quite polluted or toxic enough to
qualify for Brownfield funding.
for % of affordable units, McGrath said, "we
think we can exceed some of the (new city) IZ
(inclusionary zoning) law requirements."
He does not yet have a feel for what % of units
might be rental, and what % ownership. In his other
developments, he said, "We have more experience
He said he'll likely "bring in some people
who have experience with rental" to help him, as
needed, on that side.
Olson suggested McGrath consider assigning some units
to a non-profit - to let the non-profit use tools
available only to a non-profit.
McGrath cited a Milwaukee developer, Barry
Mandel, who uses a 'lease-to-own' idea where residents
"can build up credits that can be used in his
Mike Barrett mentioned "energy-efficient
mortgages" and "location-efficient
mortgages." Olinger said there are
transit-related mortgages, where lenders figure if
you're using public transit, and not using a car,
you're spending less on transportation, so they let
you use a higher % of your monthly income.
McGrath said they might also use an arrangement
where his development company will not actually be
selling the land but only leasing the land to condo
McGrath would finance the land component so the
condo buyer's down payment can be less, because the
condo buyer is buying only the constructed-unit
portion not the land portion.
Doug Johnson cited the idea of creating a
limited-equity co-op - where, when condo owners want
to leave, they sell their unit back to the co-op.
members talked briefly, and in general, about building
height - about the trade-off between a taller
building creating a smaller footprint, and therefore
more space vs. buildings not as tall covering a
greater % of the site.
Olinger said, "I have my issues with
It depends on what you get from the
Studio member Trudy Younger asked, "How
tall is 'tall'?"
Younger and Studio member Leslie Christopherson
both said any green space created should be something
"usable" - not just mowed and manicured
lawn that nobody uses.
Studio member Eric Schramm said the 'affordable
housing' component is really important to him - and
if a taller building meant more density, therefore
lower cost per unit, making it more affordable, then
he would be willing to consider height but "I
don't think it should stick out like a sore thumb,
McGrath said he's considering creating a
building tall enough to have "lake views and
Views are sometimes seen as "a class
issue," he said. "But why shouldn't people
with modest incomes have lake views and Capitol views,
neighbors returned to the subject of framing green
spaces to make them, as one put it, "intimate
little treasures" instead of "dead" and
undefined - spaces that nobody uses.
McGrath said he's considering a public
sculpture garden as part of the development.
He said he would also consider various types of
gardening - including raised bed gardens.
plans to submit a General Development Plan (GDP) to
the city by June.
Ald. Olson asked, "How specific will the
McGrath said, "A GDP can be very general.
It can mention a range of building heights,
bulk, ...very general."
Ald. Olson pointedly reminded McGrath that
"there's still Winnebago" to deal with.
Olson has said one of her priorities is to make
sure Winnebago Street is treated in such a way as to
not encourage more through traffic on the
Winnebago-Willy Street corridor.
Younger said her customers ask her about the
development every day.
"Every day people ask me two things, When
are they going to break ground?
And when are they going to get a grocery over
Corners Planning Studio Meeting Notes
Holy Cross Lutheran Church
Army Community Center
Studio members + 12 other neighbors not officially designated
Studio members), 4 members of the McGrath team
member Michael Carlson displayed a series of drawings.
Studio attendees gathered around a tabletop as
Carlson outlined a six-step way of thinking about site
design - "primary centers" (a system of public
landmarks), connect them, boundaries, and "secondary
centers" (more private).
The drawings, he said, might suggest how to achieve
structure and form on a site - how to achieve balance
between the buildings ("masses") and open space
McGrath then introduced Chris Gallagher, his architect
from Eppstein Uhen Architects, Milwaukee, to describe some
preliminary site plans. What we are showing you tonight,
McGrath said, is part of "an ongoing discussion.
Clearly, we have a long way to go, but this is a
emphasized, "We are very early in the process." The
McGrath team distributed copies of a five-page 11x17
document with three site plans ["B,"
"B1," and "C"] and a streetscape
said, "The first two site plans I'm going to show you
["B" and "B1"] are studies of how to
fit the Atwood Community Center on the site and also
accomplish some of our goals."
[Note: The Atwood Community Center board is
considering three expansion options. One option would be
to be part of the McGrath development.
The Atwood board has not made a decision yet.]
One idea, Gallagher said, ["B1"} would be
to place a new Atwood Community Center building at the
"back" (eastern edge) of the site - against
the backyards of homes along Farwell Street.
You would come down Sullivan Street - a
"promenade," Gallagher said, "and at the
end of this main street, you would come to the community
"B1" the community center building would frame
your view, coming down Sullivan - you'd see it down at
the end of Sullivan, all the way from Winnebago.
The second scenario for incorporating Atwood
Community Center ["B"], Gallagher said, would
involve putting the community center into the French
Battery Building at the "front" of the site -
along with a building addition. Under "B" there
would be row houses at the end of Sullivan where the
community center would be under "B1".
On building height, Gallagher said, overall they
are looking at "three- to six-stories." Todd
McGrath quickly interjected "we're still a little
early to talk about building height."
consultant Tim Anderson, of Schreiber-Anderson, talked
about where, on the site, "it might be logical to
have anchors" - anchor uses like a grocery.
He also talked about, do we move a building back
off of East Washington, to create some space fronting the
building? Or do we move a building up to the sidewalk
along East Washington - and create the social space on
the 'back' (Winnebago) side?
He talked about putting a grocery right at the
corner of East Washington and Milwaukee Street to
"anchor" that corner.
Gallagher showed photos from other cities to
illustrate some of the things the McGrath team is
considering - "iconic shapes,"
"mid-rise" - 3- to 4-stories, expressive
detail at the corners of buildings, green on top of the
underground parking structure, a choice of what kind of
'character' you Want to express: 'more hip and up-to-date'
vs. more traditional.
Studio then split into two groups to react to the
preliminary site plans. Here are some of the comments recorded at the two discussion
groups - Add significance to the East
Washington-Milwaukee Street corner. Should be a place of
public prominence to the larger community.
Don't turn your back to East Washington.
Stores along East Washington should have entrances
on both sides - East Washington and Winnebago.
Frame the street with buildings.
Welcoming architecture. Wide sidewalks.
point and continuity.
Community Center at end of 'promenade.' Larger
green space in center - more of a village green. A 'town
square' - Circle Park type of feeling.
Architectural theme. Visual interest. Focal point.
Creative landscaping. Urban texture.
Public outdoor art.
Cafe or beer garden spilling out into the center.
Section 42 for some low-income.
Balance ownership-rental about 50-50.
Mix of less expensive townhouses or lofts with more
expensive units. Provide
units for those who choose to rent as a matter of
paths within the development.
Increase ability to navigate through.
Connect green spaces.
Narrow, framed, intimate pathways.
Don't want to walk through 'fields of pavement.'
Multiple entrances into or through buildings.
How will it feel to walk past / through the
development? Ask yourself, 'Would I walk on this street?'
is driving planning. You just cannot create an urban area
when you have big open fields of surface parking.
McGrath says he's trying to challenge potential
business tenants to consider less parking.
Some businesses want five parking spaces per 1,000
square feet; McGrath is looking at three or four.
a lot of space given over to cars.
Need more walking links - away from cars.
People want to get away from cars, will welcome a
respite from cars. Too many streets.
Comments pro and con about the 'new Winnebago
Street' proposed on site plan "C;" some like it,
some don't. Would
like to see buildings line both sides of Winnebago.
the site to feel urban - not suburban.
Don't want suburban model of winding roads,
separate buildings set far apart, each with its own
one shared surface parking space to serve all buildings.
Park once and walk to multiple destinations.
Urban form - Push buildings up to the sidewalk
edge. More nuance, less "emptiness."
the two groups gathered back together, there was some
further discussion --Yes, some immediate neighbors will
want to be able to walk to the grocery but we still have
to accommodate people who drive.
Street Co-Op general manager possibly interested in a
location at the "back" of the site (eastern
edge), against Farwell Street backyards, at the end of
Sullivan Street, where the "B1" site plan places
the Atwood Community Center building.
says "I don't have a strong opinion, either way"
about whether there should be a street connection at the
"back" of the site - to Farwell.
[Note: Farwell is a dead-end now, from South Court
to the RR tracks.]
Neighbors on Farwell, North Court, South Court, and
Corry don't want the increased traffic. Gallagher says
this happens all the time: "You go into a city, the
city encourages you to connect with the existing
you start to meet with the neighbors, and they don't want
Back to top
Studio members + 10 other neighbors not officially
designated Studio members), 3
members of the McGrath team
facilitator Rebecca Krantz reminded Studio members the
McGrath team goal is to complete a general development
plan by late May-early June. "So," she said,
"we need to try to wrap up at least this phase of
our work by the end of May."
Monday (Feb 9)," City Planning director Mark
Olinger reported, "for the first time, City staff
had a team meeting with the McGrath development
team." Eight city staff from different
departments were at the meeting - including
Engineering, Traffic Engineering, Planning, plus Dave
Trowbridge, who staffs the Transportation 2020 process
and is a resource on rail issues.
Olinger said much of the time at the team
meeting was spent talking about Sullivan vs. Sixth as
a main access point off East Washington. There is some
concern among City staff, he said, about how the
signal progression would work on East Washington if
lights were added at either Sullivan or Sixth.
A main access point off East Washington is a
"big deal" to those at the meeting, Olinger
second team meeting is set for March 1, he said,
"and maybe another in mid-March." The
feeling right now, Olinger said, is the first phase of
the Union Corners development might not require adding
traffic lights on East Washington at all.
Giving pedestrians enough time to cross East
Washington came up.
There was some discussion of access off
Milwaukee Street, less discussion of access from the
"back" side off the end of Farwell.
was also talk at the team meeting about a possible
pedestrian-bike crossing of the RR tracks - at
either Jackson, Ohio or Dunning - to help link the
McGrath development with the neighborhood to the
south. Eric Schramm asked if they discussed the question of a grade
crossing vs. a bridge over the RR tracks. They did
thinking, at this point, is we would be considering a
grade crossing. Tim Anderson, of McGrath consultants
Schreiber-Anderson, said if a bridge were to be
considered, there would be "clearance
issues," raising questions of how high a bridge
would have to be.
Olinger said it would be "about a
six-month process" if the City chose to go to the
RR Commissioner to ask for a pedestrian-bike crossing.
team meetings will involve other City staff people.
Membership of the City team will change, as needed,
Olinger said, and may involve Real Estate and
development people in the future since either Sullivan
or Sixth would require land acquisition.
reviewed the comments neighbors made at September 24
and September 29, 2003 Union Corners meetings -
particularly about what kinds of housing and what
kinds of businesses they'd like to see.
McGrath handed out copies of a BUBBLE DIAGRAM -
POTENTIAL LAND USE SCENARIO that suggests areas where
various land uses might go on the site without
identifying exact building footprints.
At the next Studio meeting (February 25),
McGrath said, we'll take a crack at our first
preliminary general development plan, where we
identify a few building footprints and identify the
internal circulation streets.
Studio members want to see "a real-life
example" of some of the things the McGrath team
is considering for the Union Corners site, like green
roofs and enclosing (concealing) parking with
landscaping, he said they should look at 4th Ward
Lofts, a McGrath development in the Findorff Yards
area, across the street from the Badger Bus station.
McGrath suggested Studio members may want to
tour 4th Ward Lofts and some other buildings in that
area - the Keller family, he said, has done an
interesting building on the Joyce Funeral Home site. A tour might give Studio members a better feel for some of
what he is proposing. He said he likes the new Common
Wealth development along the Yahara River also.
Bubble Diagram map shows both Sullivan and Sixth as
"Potential Signal (traffic light)
Whether it's Sullivan or Sixth that becomes the
main access point onto and off of East Washington,
McGrath said, "it's important that it could be
signalized in the future" if conditions warrant.
front of the French Battery building, the Bubble
Diagram shows expanded green space. The McGrath team
wants to add to the grass and trees there by closing
Division Street from LaFollette to Winnebago -
turning that pavement into gardens or green space.
Gardens on the vacated Division Street
right-of-way could be created and maintained by
neighbors, McGrath suggested. This green area, he
said, could become the kind of space that attracts
people to walk, sit, eat and meet people.
the French Battery building and east along the RR
tracks, the Bubble Diagram shows "Community
Center." The Union Corners site is one of three
options the Atwood Community Center Board is
considering for a new location.
McGrath said "We have agreed to go to
their February 23 Board meeting to talk to them about
possibility, he said, would be to use the first floor
of the French Battery building as commercial with
Under one scenario, Ford's Gym might relocate
to the main floor of the French Battery building at
rest of the Bubble Diagram shows "Retail with
Housing Above" along East Washington - with a
Grocery possibly located along East Washington between
Sullivan and Florence; "Residential with Street
Level Commercial" south of the proposed Sullivan
Street Extension - between Sullivan and the RR
tracks; "Residential / Senior Housing" along
the north side of Sullivan, set back from East
Washington; and "Residential / Row houses"
at the 'back' of the property lined up north-south
with Anzinger Court.
said he has talked with Willy Street Co-Op General
Manager Anya Firszt about a second Co-Op location at
Union Corners. The talks were "encouraging,"
he said. "They're open to housing above." He asked if a Union Corners Co-Op could have a meat counter,
and if so, "Do we have to have $16 a pound
plans a total of 300 housing units (apartments and
condominiums) - rental units closer to East
Washington, owner-occupied units further from East
Washington - plus 110,000 square feet of commercial
space - which might include a grocery, like a Willy
Street Co-Op, a hardware store (Ace on Willy Street is
interested in a possible second location), a flower
shop, pharmacy, a restaurant (the owners of
Cleveland's Diner on East Wilson are interested in
opening a Greek restaurant - there is a potential
connection with the Greek church across the street).
"I wouldn't say we're really to the point
of 'negotiating' yet," McGrath said. "I
would say we've 'started a conversation' with Ace, and
with Willy Street Co-Op".
Studio members expressed support for both the
Willy Street Co-Op second location and the Willy
Street Ace Hardware second location as
Trudy Younger said Union Corners would be a
"great location" for a hardware store.
if he would encourage a variety of different looks
within the development, rather than impose a single
look, McGrath said he likes the 'industrial-style
appearance' of the French Battery building, as a
theme, "but we're open to the idea of several
he plan to build right up to the sidewalk edge along
East Washington? "We want to study that,"
McGrath said. "Not necessarily." Tim
Anderson said you might have a setback from the
sidewalk edge in order to "accommodate street
life, lots of foot traffic."
McGrath said maybe the tables-and-chairs
sitting space could be on the internal side of the
buildings, not on the East Washington side.
said he plans to ask that a Tax Incremental Financing
(TIF) district be created. Use of TIF, he said,
"could really help us do a more quality
TIF $ could be used, he said, to acquire
right-of-way, build storm water infrastructure.
Some suggest the boundaries of a TIF district
should be drawn larger than the McGrath development
itself to help pay for related area infrastructure
McGrath has been working with engineers on
environmental remediation. "We'll be dealing with
storm water throughout the site," he said.
"Membrane roofs - if you get a heavy rain, you
can store some of it, to delay the surge.
Permeable pavers - paving blocks that allow a
certain % of the storm water to percolate down into
the soil, instead of all run off at once into the
storm sewer. We're
looking at all these."
Barrett said he "applauds what you guys are doing
with storm water, spreading it out.
Green roofs would give you more usable space
for your tenants." Barrett urged that green space be made usable as 'green space
connections' - pedestrian corridors - connecting
various points in the area. At the previous Studio
meeting (January 28) Barrett showed a map highlighting
critical pedestrian-bicycle routes linking
pedestrian-bike traffic generators such as nearby
parks and schools.
Barrett emphasized in particular, the important
neighborhood pedestrian route through the Holy Cross
Lutheran parking lot, and across Union Street, to
connect Union Corners with the East Madison Shopping
Center (Hawthorne Library).
He urged McGrath to build to the sidewalk edge
- and to look for ways to reduce parking demand by,
for example, making payment for a parking spot
separate from - rather than part of - the lease.
Barrett also strongly urged McGrath to consider
a "variety of looks" - rather than one,
monochromatic look for the entire development.
Leslie Christopherson said she seconds the idea
of pedestrian corridors - linking various points,
building up to the sidewalk edge, and encouraging a
variety of different looks.
McGrath said they will "try to create a
rhythm on the street," encourage street
That's one of the reasons, he said, they want
to put surface parking to serve the retail
"behind" the buildings, on the interior of
the site. Street-level
space could be sold to a small businessperson who
wants to live there, above their store or office.
Leslie Grossberg urged McGrath to consider use
of water within the green spaces, high-efficiency
living units, greenhouses, and reduced car use. There
was also discussion of a large sculpture or other
large-scale outdoor 'public art.'
Back to top
January 28, 2004
neighbors (9 citizen Studio members
+ 10 other neighbors not officially designated
Studio members), 2 members of the McGrath team
meeting, EINPC facilitator Rebecca Krantz said, would
be a "wrap-up" of the Transportation topic
for now. "Last
time," she said, "we came to a tentative
agreement that Sullivan Street should be the main
access connecting the McGrath development with East Washington. That was conditional upon a number of things, including
getting stoplights at Sullivan and East Washington.
We'll be feeding the results of the Studio back into
the developer, and the City, then we will probably be
cycling back to Transportation again, later on, after
we see how things shake out."
McGrath said he'd like to "touch base on a couple
A McGrath team meeting with City staff about
the proposed Sullivan Street connection with East
Washington "hopefully will happen next
week," he said.
need to have good site access," McGrath said.
Access to East Washington is important, he said, but
"other connections" are also important. A
good connection with Milwaukee Street, he said, is
"right up there" in importance with a
connection to East Washington. Also, he said, the
McGrath team would like to open up a new street
connection onto Farwell, to help tie the Union Corners
development into the neighborhood.
He said they'd like this to be a low-key
"truly neighborhood" link, to give immediate
neighbors a convenient way into and out of the
Farwell is a dead-end south of South Court.)
Lester, 2657 Milwaukee Street, asked why the area
north of the RR tracks - Farwell, Corry, North
Court, and South Court - should get more traffic on
their streets when the area south of the RR tracks
would not. "I
might have to go door to door in there" (South
Court, Farwell, etc), Lester said, "and let those
people know what's going on. If the goal is to 'tie
the development into the neighborhood,' then why not
open up streets across the RR tracks to the south
to everything we've been told," McGrath said,
"it would be close to impossible to add a new
grade crossing (across the RR tracks to the south).
Look, I didn't want to open up a can of worms tonight.
Let me just say, I think with the proper design, a new
street connection could be opened up onto Farwell, and
it could be done in a way that it would not add many
vehicles to those streets."
told Lester, "OK. I understand this is a concern
that hasn't been adequately addressed. Maybe we could
make a note of it and return to this at a later
said, "Those streets (Farwell, South Court, North
Court) are so tight, so narrow now, they can't even be
plowed properly. So why even open it up? Keep the end
of Farwell sealed, as it is now. Once people learn they can get out that way, it will
severely effect that neighborhood," Lester said.
"It sounds very nice to say, 'tie it into
the neighborhood' but it seems to me we're trying to
protect the neighborhood south of the tracks, at the
expense of the area north of the tracks.
There's people living there, too, you
consultant Tim Anderson, of Schreiber-Anderson, talked
about pedestrian and bike connections through the area
now and possible future connections.
reported information from Dave Trowbridge, who staffs
the Transportation 2020 planning process, about
possible commuter rail (Sun Prairie-Middleton) and/or
high-speed rail (Chicago-Minneapolis/St.Paul) links
that would run right by the property.
was some discussion about a possible commuter rail
stop being incorporated into the Union Corners
development - and what this might mean.
Doug Johnson said commuter rail is an
"unknown" and it might not be fair to ask
McGrath to set aside space in his development for a
stop on a commuter rail line that may or may not ever
happen. Lance McGrath said, "It would be hard to
mothball a piece of property."
potential drawback for McGrath, if a commuter rail
stop were located there, would be commuters might use
his retail parking spaces as, in effect, a 'Park And
Castillo, of South Marquette Street, said affordable
housing opportunities might be lost if a commuter rail
stop were located there, because property values
typically go up adjacent to a commuter rail stop -
so land might become too expensive.
members also had questions about how much space would
be needed for a commuter rail stop - and about the
amount of parking that might be required around a
commuter rail stop: Little? A lot?
Or none at all?
Would driving to the commuter rail stop -
parking, then riding - be encouraged? Or
then reported information about the bus system from
Tim Sobota, of Madison Metro.
Main routes serving the Union Corners area are
4, 5 and 6. Neighbors
and Studio members agreed the current system works
well, that buses should remain on the major grid
streets, and that there's no need to try to bring the
buses into the Union Corners development itself.
Pedestrian-Bike coordinator Arthur Ross then talked
about pedestrian and bike connections.
Most of his remarks dealt with the rail
Lance McGrath, Tim Anderson and City Planning
Director Mark Olinger said they would come back to the
next Studio meeting, in two weeks, with more
information on what the City would have to do to try
to get approval of a pedestrian-bike grade crossing of
the RR tracks at Jackson.
Back to top
neighbors (10 citizen Studio members + 15 other neighbors
not officially designated Studio members), 2 members of
the McGrath team
the conclusion of this night's meeting, neighbors made
The Studio advised the McGrath team: 1. To
create one new primary access street -- Sullivan
Street, just north of Trudy's - not two new streets
- Sullivan and Sixth - to connect the McGrath
development with East Washington Avenue; and 2.
To design the Sullivan-Winnebago Street intersection
in a way that would discourage use of Winnebago as a
regional thorough street.
McGrath was away on vacation.
His brother Lance McGrath made some
introductory remarks about: 1. "The different
parameters we gave to John Lichtenheld" for him
to be able to prepare traffic projections; 2. McGrath
discussions with various grocers; and 3. "Our
too early for McGrath to know what the future
development will look like but in order to do traffic
projections, they needed to give McGrath consultant
John Lichtenheld, of Schreiber-Anderson, something to
So, Lance said, they told him to base his
projections on a possible future development of 300
dwelling units plus 110,000 square feet of commercial.
That, he said, would likely generate about 8,000 trips
(Note: Each in and out is counted as a separate
"trip." So a car pulling in to a grocery,
for example, then pulling out again would be counted,
in that 8,000, as two "trips". )
A grocery is considered to be the largest
"trip-generator." McGrath is thinking Union
Corners commercial might include a grocery, office
space and specialty retail.
has had discussions with a number of interested
grocers. Two of them, Lance said, "have actually
taken the time to sit down with us" to begin to
talk in some detail.
The two grocers, he said, "view the site
One, a "regional" grocer, said it
would prefer to be more at the back of the site, away
from East Washington Avenue; the other, more of a
"local grocer," he said, "would prefer
to have frontage along East Washington Avenue."
"It just goes to show you," Lance said, how
two potential tenants have two completely different
approaches - and, in your planning, you "need
to allow for flexibility" to respond to different
far as arranging clean up of the site, Rayovac is
"actually ahead of schedule," Lance said.
Rayovac and DNR have been meeting.
Rayovac's environmental consultants, he said,
could "possibly" be ready to start actual
on-site work "as soon as mid- to
"They would probably like us to be out
knocking down buildings by then," Lance said, so
they can get started with their work.
also told the Studio "we need to make a decision
today" on access streets into and out of the site
to East Washington Avenue.
The McGrath team, he said, wants to create two
new access streets -Sullivan and Sixth Street.
If there are concerns about Winnebago - about
preventing traffic from shooting down Winnebago and
into neighborhoods, he said, "We can look at that
down the road."
facilitator Rebecca Krantz reminded the Studio that
the original game plan was to punctuate the smaller
regular Studio meetings with larger public meetings,
from time to time, to bring a larger group of
neighbors together to get their advice and correction
on where the Studio had gotten so far.
The original plan was to have one of these
larger meetings on January 28.
That idea is being scrapped, she said.
The first big public meeting will now likely be
held "in February or March," she said.
She showed Studio members a revised timeline.
"This timeline is pretty tight," she said.
"We're a little behind." "When I heard
this about the two grocers being interested," she
said, "I thought people would be excited to get
on to that topic - so, I thought, at least
provisionally, we could close out the discussion on
access to East Washington Avenue tonight, and move on
to other topics."
Wolff, of the Marquette Neighborhood Association (MNA),
said MNA and Schenk-Atwood-Starkweather-Yahara
Neighborhood Association (SASYNA) "want to bring
up a proposal" dealing with Winnebago.
consultant John Lichtenheld then went through the
traffic numbers he put together. He looked at: 1. 2001
actual ground counts; 2. McGrath projections, and
Transportation 2020 projections.
The McGrath estimate of 8,000 "trips"
in and out each day "is based on national
averages - experience all over the country," he
said, "and that number is probably on the high
Some retail trips, he pointed out, will be
"pass-by" trips - not "new"
In other words, there will be vehicles already
on East Washington Avenue now that will be stopping
in. These vehicles would be on East Washington Avenue
- and are already included in the numbers -
whether the McGrath development is built or not.
As many as 30% to 60% of trips to McGrath
retail could be "pass-by" trips, he said.
preference," Lichtenheld said, "or, our
recommendation, would be to build two new streets to
connect the development with East Washington Avenue
- Sullivan and Sixth.
He acknowledged concerns about added traffic on
Sixth - from East Washington Avenue to Packers - and
how that would be "a hardship to the
neighborhood." He said, "There are things we
can do" to reduce the through traffic on Sixth
between East Washington Avenue and Packers Avenue.
Krupp asked Lichtenheld if traffic lights at Sullivan
and East Washington Avenue would even be possible,
given how close Sullivan would be to existing lights
at Milwaukee Street.
City Traffic Engineering "hasn't said
no," Lichtenheld said.
Krupp noted that a Sullivan-East Washington
Avenue intersection would be a
"three-legged" (or, T) intersection (no
Sullivan on other side of East Washington Avenue),
while a Sixth Street-East Washington
intersection would be a "four-legged"
intersection and would better "serve" the
Urban Design Commission member Mike Barrett asked how
many regional commuters might use Winnebago as an
alternative to East Washington Avenue.
Barrett also questioned "expansion"
of the Milwaukee Street-East Washington Avenue
intersection, as part of the big East Washington
Avenue reconstruction. The redesign includes the
addition of a number of turn lanes.
Studio member Barb Irvin raised the question of
pedestrian safety at the Milwaukee Street-East
Washington Avenue intersection.
Street neighbor Ron Schutz asked if the 8,000 trips
per day figure included delivery trucks. Yes,
Lichtenheld said, all trips, all vehicles are included
in the numbers.
Street now is "a major cut-through," Irvin
said. "It's the only street that goes from East Washington
Avenue to Packers Avenue.
Cabs and fire trucks use it. There's all the
traffic into and out of Emerson Elementary
Alder Judy Olson said if Sixth Street is
extended from East Washington Avenue to the McGrath
development, and if there are traffic lights at Sixth,
then "I see a continuation of cut-through"
traffic using Sixth - and Winnebago.
both Sixth and Sullivan are going to happen, Studio
members said, maybe we need to prioritize ...Do one
first, then see if the other is necessary.
Rebecca said, "Lance, you said you'd like
a provisional decision tonight to proceed with
Yes, Lance said, we'd like to proceed with
Only one would get traffic lights; the other
would likely be a right turn-in, right turnout only.
Which one would get lights, he said, "that could
be decided later."
Planning Director Mark Olinger said, If you have
lights at Sullivan-East Washington Avenue, why would
you want to do Sixth also?
It would spread the load out, Lance said.
"What does it get you?" Olinger said.
"I just don't see it. I'm looking at cost. When
you look at the cost of acquisition (of the Sixth
Street right-of-way) (Audio-Visual Restorations)
especially if you have Sixth with a solid median -
What does Sixth Street get you?
Sixth Street - all that expense - doesn't make
sense to me. I don't think Sixth Street would be used
all that much."
Joe Krupp said, "The only way Sixth Street
would make sense is if it's a full intersection, with
a median break."
Warlick, of the Marquette Neighborhood Association (MNA),
then presented an alternative approach to Winnebago.
Over the last month, Barrett, Wolff and Warlick
have discussed Sullivan-East Washington-Winnebago.
The three agreed that people westbound on East Washington
Avenue should not be able to turn L onto Sullivan,
then R onto Winnebago - to zip down Winnebago as an
'alternative' regional through route instead of East
They want to create good access to the McGrath
development while not opening up "a new corridor
for Sun Prairie commuters."
the Barrett-Warlick-Wolff plan would say vehicles
westbound on East Washington Avenue could turn L at
Sullivan, then must proceed straight into the McGrath
They could not turn R onto Winnebago. An R turn
onto Winnebago would be prevented by a physical
Similarly, vehicles eastbound on Winnebago
could turn R at Sullivan into the development but
could not turn L onto Sullivan and on out to East
Barrett-Warlick-Wolff plan includes other ideas for
reducing the speed of vehicles on Winnebago: 1.
Narrowing the width of Winnebago, from the Schenk's
Corners business district to the McGrath development
- adding green space along the length of the street;
2. Adding a traffic calming circle at Fourth and
Winnebago; and 3. Readjusting traffic lights at
Atwood-Winnebago, to encourage traffic to head over to
East Washington Avenue (via First), instead of
shooting down Winnebago-Williamson Street.
members Eric Schramm and Trudy Younger said they liked
the Barrett-Warlick-Wolff concept.
Alder Judy Olson said, "Anything you can
do to reduce the use of Winnebago as a collector -
as a cut-through - is good."
Krupp mentioned the proposal to restore the western
end of Winnebago (at the Yahara R) - from the bike
path crossing to First Street - to two-way traffic
(that stretch is one-way now; east bound traffic must
go onto the Eastwood bypass) - so that eastbound
vehicles on Williamson Street could once again proceed
straight east on Winnebago to the Schenk's Corners
Krupp suggested that what happens on the
eastern end of Winnebago (at Sullivan) is "very
much a part of" what happens on the western end
(at the Yahara R).
this time it was 8:45 PM. Rebecca noted, "We're
trying to get some closure" by 9:00 PM.
Studio members generally were in favor of going
with Sullivan, and keeping cars off of Sixth,
although, some noted, it all depends on whether you
get lights at Sullivan.
If you don't, they said, then you're going to
Lance said lights at Sullivan "would be
our preference, because Sullivan would be in the
middle of the development.
Except if there's a use of the French Battery
building that would benefit from bringing vehicles
right to it" via Sixth Street.
The Studio then agreed to recommend to the
McGrath team that they plan on one street - Sullivan
- to connect with East Washington Avenue - not two
- and that Sixth be kept 'in the drawer' - in the
'back pocket,' so to speak - to be reconsidered only
if there are problems with Sullivan in the future -
or if the city does not allow lights or a median break
at Sullivan-East Washington Avenue.
The Studio also expressed agreement with the
idea of vacating (eliminating) Winnebago Street from
Sullivan Street to the East Washington Avenue merge
(Florence Street). That land could then be
incorporated into the McGrath development as
additional East Washington frontage.
Back to top
3, 2003 Meeting Notes
EINPC facilitator Rebecca Krantz reminded Studio members
that McGrath Associates has a certain limited amount of
time to listen to Studio members' ideas.
McGrath has to be ready to submit a development
plan for the French Battery portion of the property by
Studio process is something McGrath agreed to voluntarily;
he is not required to do this. When you open up a process like this, Krantz said, it gets
people's hopes up. Neighbors want to "dream big"
and have "meaningful input," but because of the
time constraints, Krantz said, "We may not be able to
dream as big as we'd like."
of the time we'll be reacting to developers'
ideas," she said.
Krantz encouraged Studio members to not think
of themselves as coming up with brand new ideas on
their own; instead, she urged them to embrace the role
of reacting to McGrath Associates ideas, offering
advice, feedback and correction, then seeing what
revisions the McGrath team may bring back to the next
Studio meeting. Otherwise,
she said, at some point we may have to just go ahead
with certain decisions because time has run out and
"the train is leaving the station."
McGrath said, "A number of people have approached
us" about possibly locating in a Union Corners
development. A grocery store is "critical,"
he noted. "We've been contacted by grocery,
hardware, banking. Spruce Tree Music has contacted us.
We're thinking of neighborhood convenience uses
like a postal station.
Discussions have been very general.
We have not done a formal market study. Anya,
from Willy Street Co-Op, said they have done a formal
market study, and they have identified this site as a
potential second site."
of you have suggested we talk in detail about land use
on the site before we talk about transportation,"
McGrath said. "Some of you have said, 'How can we
talk about access before we know 'access to what?'
But I need to know. I need to know, first, what
the access points into the site are going to be. I need to know that. That
will help shape decisions on how the site is going to
said "our main focus tonight is going to be the
Winnebago merge" - Winnebago enters East Wash
near Florence Street (Ford's Gym) - and how do
McGrath customers and residents get on and off East
McGrath team does not like the existing Winnebago
merge; they would rather end Winnebago at a new Sixth
Street or a new Sullivan Street connecting the McGrath
development with East Wash, then vacate the existing
Winnebago right-of-way from Sullivan up to the merge
with East Wash - and incorporate that area into the
Lichtenheld, of McGrath consultants
Schreiber-Anderson, said it's always been a
"chicken-and-egg" problem in planning,
"Which comes first? The transportation? Or the
the question of how do McGrath customers and residents
get onto and off East Wash, he said, the first option
is, to some extent, "the status quo" -
what is in the East Wash Reconstruction plans now.
That is to get rid of the existing merge and,
instead, have a plain T intersection of Winnebago with
Florence St. Then, if you wanted to get out onto East
Wash, you'd make a Left turn from Winnebago onto
Florence, stop almost immediately at another Stop sign
at Florence and East Wash. Then make a Right turn onto
East Wash. "From
our standpoint," Lichtenheld said, "this
does not really accomplish anything. It's a terrible
situation. This is one we'd like to see improve."
second option, he said, would be to create an
extension of Sullivan St, across Winnebago, between
Trudy's and the insurance company building, meeting up
with East Wash across from the Victory Arms apartment
building. One advantage with Sullivan, he said, is
"this would give us full access in the middle of
the development." One concern with Sullivan,
though, would be it might be "too close" to
the existing stoplights at Milwaukee Street and you'd
have to go with a right-turn-in, right-turn-out only
at Sullivan, with no crossing of East Wash, because
the city would not allow you to put stoplights there.
third option would be to create an extension of Sixth
St. One advantage with Sixth St is it's further from Milwaukee
Street than Sullivan - which would perhaps allow the
placing of stoplights there.
One concern with Sixth, though, is it might
encourage increased traffic through the Emerson East
Neighborhood, through to E Johnson and on to Packers -
which Emerson East neighbors would strongly object to.
So, if Sixth St were chosen, the problem of
increased traffic on Sixth from East Wash to Packers
would have to be addressed. Neighbor Eric Schramm said
he likes Option #2 (Sullivan); Option #3, he said,
would just "create too much traffic" on
Sixth Street from East Wash to Packers. Tim Anderson,
of McGrath consultants Schreiber-Anderson, said
"Before you discount any of these options, like
Sixth Street, let's look at how we could mitigate
possible traffic effects" on the other side of
East Wash to Packers.
Studio members then began to express preferences for
Option #1, #2 or #3.
Trudy Younger said if Sullivan (option #2)
were chosen, she would like to see a full, signalized
intersection there - with left and right turns.
Barb Irvin said she likes Option #2; she said
she likes the idea of vacating Winnebago Street from
Sullivan up to the East Wash merge. Winnebago is
"so wide," right now, she said; "it's
so much pavement." It would be nice to put that
land to use, she said, by incorporating it into the
McGrath development - presenting a "bigger
face" to East Wash - and increasing the
McGrath team cautioned Studio members they would
likely get a maximum of one median break, if that,
across East Wash - from Fifth to Milwaukee.
During East Wash Reconstruction planning, staff
was trying to eliminate median breaks, not add more.
So you will not get a median break at Sixth and
at Sullivan. You would have to choose one or the
other, and make the other a right-turn-in,
right-turn-out only with a solid median to prevent
crossing to, or turns across, westbound East Wash.
member Doug Johnson asked if the McGrath people had
talked with City staff about a stoplight at Sullivan.
City staff seems to be open to putting a median
break at Sullivan, they said, if that's where the
development wants one. As far as lights, they said
Sullivan would have to meet standard eligibility
criteria for placement of stoplights.
members discussed, back and forth, how much McGrath
customers and residents might use Milwaukee Street as
an access point off of East Wash. As
part of the East Wash Reconstruction, the city plans
to add a Left Turn Only lane on westbound East Wash at
Milwaukee St. McGrath
customers and residents westbound on East Wash could
turn Left onto Milwaukee Street, then turn Right down
a proposed new street, parallel to Anzinger Ct, at a
point roughly where the back of the Kohl's store is
Studio members said they thought, even if a full
signalized Sullivan St intersection were created as
the "main access point" into the McGrath
development, some people on westbound East Wash would
choose to turn Left at Milwaukee, instead of Sullivan,
and use Milwaukee Street as their main access point
into the McGrath development from westbound East Wash.
Sara Cress said, "We need to look at
diverting traffic away from Milwaukee Street.
Milwaukee Street takes too much traffic now.
I'm sold on Option #3.
Option #3 (Sixth Street) would give you the
greatest separation from Milwaukee Street."
Judy Olson said "maybe Option #2 and #3,"
rather than choosing one or the other.
"Yeah," McGrath said, "We've
been thinking of that too.
More than one new access point."
the meeting by saying, "Thank you, to Mr.
McGrath, for being willing to listen."
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19 Union Corners Studio Meeting Notes
Item: Business of the Studio
are to be held at the Atwood Community center until
further notice; if notice comes, it will come after
the New Year.
the Studio is still growing and changing, as more
folks learn of it, the Studio must resolve how to
include new members. How much information ought they
receive? Should volunteers arrive early to update
newcomers? Will newcomers know to come early, to be
so updated? Rather than meeting early to update
newcomers, the group decided it was enough to
continue to make the notes and updates available at
the project website and in hardcopy at the Hawthorne
members of the group have resolved to learn one
another's names rather than use name plates or name
needs help with administrative tasks and setting the
meeting agendas. Leslie Grossberg, Leslie
Christopherson, and Mary Putman volunteered to be an
"agenda crew." More help is always
welcome. Tell Rebecca if you are willing or
able to help out between meetings.
can be arranged with five day's notice.
Cable might be persuaded to broadcast Studio
meetings, but the Studio will make no formal effort
to broadcast its proceedings, except for the special
meetings devoted to broader public outreach.
Item: Reflections on Site Tour
regarding the tour of the site: Members agreed that
the Union Corners site is both lovely and
persnickety. Folks familiar with the site respond
positively to its proximity, and the history
reflected in its structures. Also, the land sheds
buckets of water and is contaminated with battery
residue, which worries people, and seems to limit
what buildings can or can't be saved. Everyone is
encouraged to attend the tour, or visit the land
somehow, to get a sense of the scale of the land and
regarding which comes first: "Should we begin
with roads, or should we begin with buildings?"
How should the space be formed? What ought to be
Christopherson asked if all buildings on site now
except the French Battery building
necessarily have to come down.
Lance McGrath acknowledged some of the
existing Rayovac buildings
have "some nice qualities" but he reminded
Studio members: "Our main goal is to purchase a
clean site." He said it's one thing to remove a
building, so you have only a concrete slab floor to
deal with, then tear up that concrete and remove
It's entirely another thing to "work
around" a standing building when trying to
remove battery waste. That, he said, would
significantly increase costs and perhaps compromise
the clean-up and removal work.
Also, Lance reminded Studio members, leaving
an existing building in place may interfere with one
of the other Studio goals, such as landing a new
Studio members did not agree on whether
existing Rayovac buildings besides the French
Battery building were even worth considering.
Comments ranged from some buildings could be
"beautiful" to "When I look at the
site now, I think it's ugly."
Trudy Younger asked McGrath if it would even
be technically "possible" to keep some of
the existing buildings--are they in good enough
trying to keep an open mind," he said; but
reminded Studio members site clean-up is first
priority. Angie Castillo suggested, if some members wish to advocate
that certain buildings be considered for
preservation, they should identify on a map
"which buildings they're interested in."
McGrath said there are 27 buildings on the site now.
Item: Presentation by City Transportation
off the remainder of Winnebago from Sullivan to the
from the City spoke regarding the reconstruction of
the street pattern surrounding the site. It was
clear that cars are difficult to accommodate to
everyone's satisfaction. In general, neighbors
hope to walk and bike there safely, and they will
take mass transit to and from the site, if it's
available. The folks from the City are working hard
to understand and solve the traffic problems that
the redevelopment might create.
Lichtenheld, a Traffic Engineer with Schrieber/Anderson
to the developers) presented three possible street
three of them with Sullivan Street extended though
the property to a new
street that ultimately has access to Milwaukee
Street, and all three also
to close off the portion of Division Street between
"Option 1" extends Sullivan Street from
Winnebago to East Washington Avenue,
East Washington/Milwaukee intersection. "Option 2"
ends Winnebago at Florence Street with right-angle
access onto East Washington just before Florence and
at Florence. "Option
3" ends Winnebago at Sullivan Street and extends
Sixth Street from East Washington to Winnebago and
creates a new segment of street that links
Winnebago. Discussion of these three options was
tabled to the next
Deputy City Engineer Rob
Phillips said the city is "not married to"
the Winnebago Street
redesign as in the East Washington Reconstruction
documents filed thus far with WisDOT and the feds.
East Washington Reconstruct plans currently replace
the Winnebago Street merge with a 'T' intersection and
Stop sign at Florence-East Washington so vehicles
traveling east on Winnebago would stop at Florence, turn L, stop at East
Washington, turn R onto East Washington.
Phillips said "We don't have to do this."
The City came up with this solution, as a stopgap, he
said, just to have something down on paper to get
through the Environmental Assessment process. Work on
East Washington from Second Street to Highway 30 is
planned for 2007; that's far enough in the future,
Phillips said, that the city can change the treatment
of Winnebago Street, and other aspects of the East
Washington Reconstruct design.
Back to Top
November 5, 2003 Union Corners Planning Studio
the meeting: Will
Warlick, Mark Olinger, Kurt Schneider, Rita Giovannoni,
Leah Emmerich, Deacon Wayne Blue, Adam Jacobs, Beverly
Scheuers, Courtney Curran, Donald E. Robb, John Young,
Bob Mayville, Sara Cress, Leslie Christopherson, Trudy Younger,
Archie Nicolette, Noel P. Anderson, Michael Carlson,
Brett Myers, Judy Olson, Maureen Mross, Judy Ferre,
Alyce C. Adkison, Alison Lindsay Mares, Mary Putman,
Ron Schutz, Jen Voichick, Stan Szczepanowski, Nancy
Dungan, Kevin Driscoll, Fritz Hastreiter, Mary Virgin, Joe Krupp, Barb Irvin, Todd McGrath, John Steines, Eric Schramm, Doug Johnson, Mark McFadden, and
Rebecca Krantz (meeting facilitator)